[yashica] Yashicaflex Models

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[yashica] Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Paul Sokk » Ven 17 Mai 2013 05:52

Bonjour,

I'm not sure if I am posting this in the correct section or not. I apologise if it shouldn't be here.

Over the years, I have landed on this site quite often and have much admired its resourcefulness and accessibility to collectors. It is very impressive and I assume that it is quite influential, particularly in France and Europe. The reason that I feel compelled to put my (virtual) pen to paper now is that I am on a crusade! Many sites around the world have made a mistake in identifying the Yashicaflex AS-II as a Yashicaflex S and the more it happens, the more the mistake becomes "fact". eBay sellers pick-up on this etc etc. The camera identified as a "Yashicaflex S" on this site is in fact a Yashicaflex AS-II (an AS-I is the same camera with red window instead of film counter - mentioned in Yashica documents but not seen by anyone I know of).

The two models share the same meter but the lenses and shutters are quite different. In fact, the model identified as "Yashicaflex AII" on this site is identical to the AS-II, except for addition of the meter. These are budget models without self-timer and shutter with limited speeds of 1/10 to 1/200 sec. All Model S examples have a self-timer (as did the earlier Pigeonflex, Yashima Flex and Yashica Flex B) and speeds from 1 to 1/300 sec (first NKS-FB and then Copal). ALL S models also have Bay 1 filter mounts. The AS was probably first released in Nov 1954, the S earlier in the same year. Versions of both models can be found with trim features that didn't appear until 1957.

There are probably three international sites (one of which is mine) and one Japanese site (hard to find with Google) that deal with Yashica TLRs in any meaningful way. Three have identified the S and AS-II correctly (although some are confused regarding whether it is the AS-II or simply AS and one gets AS-I and AS-II back to front - not helped by differences/mistakes in Yashica documentation). The one that is wrong is well known Barry Toogood's otherwise excellent site, http://www.tlr-cameras.com. However, it is quite a long time since he has updated his information and he does link to my site from his Yashica page.

Please don't think that I am out to simply promote my site, its a labour of love (perhaps obsession) with only outgoing $s, none incoming. However, I will link the Model S entry http://www.yashicatlr.com/66ModelsPage1.html#yashicaflexs and the Model AS also http://www.yashicatlr.com/66ModelsPage1.html#yashicaflexasii. The AS entry has two downloadable user manuals in PDF format. The first is titled "Yashica Flex Model AS". Inside, you will find that the manual refers to the Model AS-II but 'if you purchased the AS-I Model..." and sometimes Yashica just refers to "AS Model". (The second manual, from slightly later, covers a number of models including the AS-II but it calls the AS-I simply "AS" and at other times uses "AS" to collectively mean both AS-II and AS-I - nothing is ever clear and simple). There are other documents including ads which confirm that there was no S model with plain filter mounts and that the two models were largely concurrent.

In regard to the other Yashicaflex models on this site, the unnamed one is a Yashicaflex C (Yashica would have called it a Yashicaflex Model C). This is the only Yashicaflex with its model name displayed - this can be found inside near the film feed chamber. This was released in 1955 but can be viewed as a Model S without meter. The comments next to the Yashicaflex Model A-II suggest (as translated by Google) that it is a re-badged Toyocaflex (one of something like 21 names used by maker Tougodo). This is the first time that I have seen this suggested. None of the sites such as Camera-wiki.org or Camerapedia make that connection. I don't know what McKeown says (I only have a 20+ year old copy which hardly touches Yashicaflex) but whilst obviously very useful for general information, I wouldn't rely on him for details. Sugiyama certainly doesn't seem to make that connection (not from what I have seen). Really, the connection is probably the fact that many, many Japanese companies, including both start-ups and established, copied the Rolleicord very, very closely. I don't mean every feature was exactly the same eg Rolleicords had Bay 1 mounts and auto stop winding from at least the early 40s, Yashica didn't introduce these until 1954 and then only on some models. But if you look at some of the under-skin detail it is hard to tell what came from the Franke & Heidecke factory and what came from eg the Yashima factory. Here is a link where the insides can be seen side by side: http://www.yashicatlr.com/Yashica.html#design

It's not my intention to be critical but I do hope that I can influence a change of name and maybe dropping of the Toyocaflex reference. I am more than happy to discuss any detail further or to provide more evidence where I can.

Regards,

Paul
Modifié en dernier par Sylvain Halgand le Mer 22 Mai 2013 12:23, modifié 2 fois.
Raison: Pose d'une balise URL manquante.
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Re: Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Arnaud SAUDAX » Ven 17 Mai 2013 06:12

:Hello: Hi Paul, and welcome Welcome on http://www.collection-appareil.fr
I think our Chief :prosterne: will be happy with these accurate informations :bigouden: :boing:
Iconomécanophile chauvin...
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Re: Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Eric Borel » Ven 17 Mai 2013 07:01

:Hello: Bonjour Paul and welcome

welcome
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Re: Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Jacques MAR » Ven 17 Mai 2013 10:07

:Hello:
Bonjour Paul,
You are most welcome here.
We like contributors who bring substance to the debate and to the site description.

Nous nous réjouissons de poursuivre.
.
Jacques

Être ou Avoir ? Être ... être présent à sa collection et disponible pour les amis partageant ce vice, voilà la meilleure posture pour un collectionneur.

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Re: Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Eric Carlhan » Ven 17 Mai 2013 15:31

Bonjour et welcome

Sorry to be brief, but my English does not allow me to great speeches :oops:
Le prix s'oublie, la qualité reste
Bastien (1ère gâchette chez Volfoni)
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Re: Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Paul Sokk » Mar 21 Mai 2013 03:40

Thank you for the kind welcome.

One thing that I forgot to mention is that I could provide any or all of the photos below of both my early (short hinge plates) and late (long hinge plates) Yashicaflex S and also early Yashicaflex AS-II (late one shown on this site):
Image
Image
Image

The early Yashicaflex S has a Copal shutter already but instead, I could organise a photo with NKS-FB from my contributor, Tom Heckhaus. That would probably be this camera:
Image

Regards,

Paul
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Re: [yashica] Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Sylvain Halgand » Mer 22 Mai 2013 12:33

Hello Paul,
Welcome.

Thanks a lot about your informations.
I began to adjust the Yashicaflex AS-II page (text is to do).
I rename Yashicaflex to Yashicaflex C.

I'll speak about your pictures after the correction.
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Re: [yashica] Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Sylvain Halgand » Mer 22 Mai 2013 12:44

About : http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/appareil-2158-Yashica_Yashicaflex%20AII.html

The text suggest that Yashimaflex was a Toyocaflex TL1 renamed. It's not about Yashicaflex A-II.
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Re: [yashica] Yashicaflex Models

Message non lupar Paul Sokk » Sam 8 Juin 2013 06:00

Hello Sylvain,

Its great that you made all those changes. However, I was probably a little unclear or made things too complicated. The Yashicaflex AS-II is now correctly named BUT it is not the first Japanese camera with built in exposure meter. That model is the Yashicaflex S which was released slightly earlier in 1954. Both cameras share the basic body structure and Sekonic CB-1 exposure meter. However, the Yashicaflex S always had Bay 1 bayonet filter mounts, first Tri-Lausar and then Heliotar lenses (never Yashimar) and first NKS-FB shutter (like the Yashicaflex B, old model, before it) and then Copal shutter, in both cases with 1/300 top speed and self-timer. The Yashicaflex AS-II always had plain filter mounts, Yashimar lenses and a Copal shutter with 1/200 top speed and no self-timer - it was a cheaper, budget model. Not an earlier version as some people think. Neither model ever had an accessory shoe for flash.

To keep things simple can I suggest something along the following lines (I am using machine translated words from French as the basis so the grammar probably leaves something to be desired in both languages):

Original Translation
Considered the first Japanese camera with a cell selenium , the Yashicaflex AS-II appears in 1954.

It has undergone several modifications until 1956: filter holder bayonet lens, trigger position, adding a shoe for flash, ... The apparatus shown is the second version.

The cell is a Sekonic CB-1 . The large sensor is hidden under the hinged cover with the mark. It is pierced with small holes to allow a measure bright light (cover closed) or attenuated (open cover)

Depending on the indication of the cell, the operator selected the opening by moving a cursor to both rules placed before the High viewfinder

Proposed Words (ideas, not actual words)
The Yashicaflex AS-II was released in late 1954. With plain filter mounts, budget Yashimar lenses and more basic Copal shutter with 1/200 top speed and no self-timer, it is a less expensive version of the Yashicaflex S which is considered to be the first Japanese camera with a selenium cell exposure meter. (Or: With plain filter mounts, budget lenses and basic shutter, it is a less expensive....etc)

It has undergone several modifications until 1957: first released with cable release shutter (the third photo in my previous post - I don't know how to explain this that would make sense to you) which changed to a normal press button, the flash sync moved from the side to the front, ... The apparatus shown is a late version. (There were a lot more than two variations but these were the biggest.)

The cell is a Sekonic CB-1 . The large sensor is hidden under the hinged cover with the mark. It is pierced with small holes to allow a measure bright light (cover closed) or attenuated (open cover)

Depending on the indication of the cell, the operator selected the opening by moving a cursor to both rules placed before the High viewfinder.

Regards,

Paul
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